SignalTraffic Forums

by **jab8356** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:50 pm

This has been this way for at least 6 months. I finally had a chance to go out and video it and pay attention to the intersection much closer than normal. The dog houses facing north and south have the problem. East and west appear to function correctly. The east west LEFT signals do not give green left arrows at the same time. One leads and the other lags, so the right arrow doghouses for north and south do the same. The green arrow is wired correctly, but if you watch the video, the yellow arrow does not follow the green. Instead, the yellow arrow comes on without a preceding green arrow at the end of the interval. I am emailing a link to this video to Macomb county so it hopefully gets corrected. For the local guys, this is 12 mile and Ryan in Warren.

by **mcha9797** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:05 pm

Where's Phil when you need him, he would have this fixed in a jiffy, and we would have a bucket shot picture to boot!! :crazy:

by **jab8356** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:06 pm

It is a very busy intersection...I doubt they would let Phil set up the bucket truck especially when the problem can be fixed in the cabinet.

by **EPAC-EPIC-MARC** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:07 pm

I think I know the problem here.

The green arrow comes on because the cross street left turn green arrow is on. The green arrows are tied to the same switch.

The problem lies in the yellow arrow connections because they require TWO switchpacks to operate. The top yellow arrow (clearance yellow) on the left turn signal on the cross street are NOT supposed to be tied to the right turn yellow arrow on the doghouse.

Reason is, if you get a call for a left turn on the cross street and the green arrow comes on, then you can get a right turn green arrow on the main street. The load switch controlling the first 3 sections in the FYA signal is dark. When the left turn (and then the doghouse) switch to a yellow arrow, the FYA load switch comes back on with the center (top yellow arrow) and the load switch controlling the doghouse arrows/green left arrow also turns yellow. The red isn't used on that switch.

This way if a call is NOT placed to the left turn and the flashing yellow arrow jumps up to a solid yellow to complete the cycle, you don't get a random yellow arrow on the doghouse.

What it looks like to me, is the green arrow comes on like it is supposed to but the yellow arrow from the doghouse is tied to the wrong switchpack...the one that is intended of controlling the solid yellow arrow on the FYA separately!

by **jab8356** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:10 pm

I watched the lead/lag left traffic on east/west bound and the correct right arrows came on for north/south when they were supposed to. If the green right arrows had been wired wrong, there would be many accidents!

by **EPAC-EPIC-MARC** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:16 pm

jab8356 wrote:I watched the lead/lag left traffic on east/west bound and the correct right arrows came on for north/south when they were supposed to. If the green right arrows had been wired wrong, there would be many accidents!

Correct green arrows I'm assuming. They're tied to the same output. yellow arrows are not

Attempting at making a rough sketch animation....

by **EPAC-EPIC-MARC** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:50 pm

As I'm doing the animation I ran into an issue that I didn't address in my original post.

For a lead/lag type operation, if the left turn green arrow came on first, then the doghouse right arrow would be green, The left turn would cycle to the top yellow arrow and red arrow, before dropping down to a flashing yellow arrow. This means if its wired like I had thought then you'd have a yellow arrow at the appropriate time...but then when the cycle finished, and the flashing yellow went up to a solid yellow to end the phase...you'd have the doghouse yellow come on by itself again.

Let us know if it gets fixed...knowing Macomb County....it will get looked at in about 6 months, and then another 6 months to fix it. :Phil:

by **2070** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:05 pm

EPAC-EPIC-MARC wrote:
jab8356 wrote:I watched the lead/lag left traffic on east/west bound and the correct right arrows came on for north/south when they were supposed to. If the green right arrows had been wired wrong, there would be many accidents!

Correct green arrows I'm assuming. They're tied to the same output. yellow arrows are not

Attempting at making a rough sketch animation....

The right turn arrows in the doghouses are Overlaps. The Yellow and Green arrows should both be on their own switch packs.....

Overlap A, Overlap B, Overlap C and Overlap D.

The wires for the yellow arrow(s) sound like they are on the opposit switch packs.............

by **EPAC-EPIC-MARC** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:21 pm

2070 wrote:
The right turn arrows in the doghouses are Overlaps. The Yellow and Green arrows should both be on their own switch packs.....

Overlap A, Overlap B, Overlap C and Overlap D.
...

Not in this case. Overlaps A,B,C and D are the flashing yellow arrow circuits for each approach. Set up in the controller overlap screen you choose which phase the overlap operates permissive and which phase operates protected. The protected phases are your standard left turn phases 1 3 5 and 7.

The green arrow for the doghouse is the green output on phases 1 3 5 or 7.. Same as the the crossing street left turn green arrows. The yellow arrow on the doghouse is the yellow output on phases 1 3 5 or 7

The red arrow, solid yellow arrow, and flashing yellow arrow are outputted on the overlap channels as red yellow and flashing green. In the cabinet is switchpacks 13 thru 16.

by **2070** on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:32 pm

Not in the picture.........

Can not trouble shoot what I can not see.

EPAC-EPIC-MARC wrote:Not in this case. Overlaps A,B,C and D are the flashing yellow arrow circuits for each approach. Set up in the controller overlap screen you choose which phase the overlap operates permissive and which phase operates protected. The protected phases are your standard left turn phases 1 3 5 and 7.

The green arrow for the doghouse is the green output on phases 1 3 5 or 7.. Same as the the crossing street left turn green arrows. The yellow arrow on the doghouse is the yellow output on phases 1 3 5 or 7

The red arrow, solid yellow arrow, and flashing yellow arrow are outputted on the overlap channels as red yellow and flashing green. In the cabinet is switchpacks 13 thru 16.

So, then the doghouse are wired correctly (Green and SOLID Yellow arrows) and it is a program problem that will never be corrected!!! :hello:

The right turn doghouse arrows need to be overlaps "E", "F" "G" and "H" to work correctly.

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